tefen
10-06-2007, 04:14 PM
Not realizing that this work shop was a series of presentations and activities I arrived a bit late and left a bit early. During the time I was there I watched a presentation about Economic Development along the Portland Street car line and got a recap of existing projects in the downtown core.
There was a lot of talk about the development and density opportunities along a streetcar line, even more so than light rail they said because street cars stop so frequently. Charlie Hales, Commisioner in Charge of the Portland Streetcar during it's construction, said "How much change do you want? This is a change agent." Thayer Rorabaugh suggested that our community is aging and "the 10,000 sqft lot is not for us anymore. I'm looking to downsize, Charlie has downsized." (I didn't stop them to mention I JUST bought a 10,000 sqft lot three years ago and that my friends who are thinking of families are looking for the same.) In speaking to the group, Thayer also said that the drive for this needs to come from the community and business owners, "It can't be government that drives this." Some examples of the benefit to businesses were given in that tourists use the Portland Streetcar "as their tour guide" because of its visibility, reliability(they know it goes back to their hotel) and cost (free) which has been beneficial for businesses along its route. Especially those who stand out visually. For maximizing this type of benfit (and presumably the tax support for the train as well ... see funding below) the idea of a couplet seemed favorable to many people, where the train would actually go north on one street and south a couple blocks over.
In the Boise Cascade Site the Developer and Architect "didn't have to be sold" on street car. They've already included the line in their preliminary drawings. It was brought up a couple times that with the limited access to the site through three, maybe four, two-lane roads the street car could be an important access piece. Thayer Roragaugh said "We may not get it with the first round of buildings, but we can plan to keep utilities and such out of the way."
Matt Ransom presented that in the long term plan for downtown they expect gridlock and envision "2 out of 10" trips in the city being trips into and out of the city center through other modes of transportation than automobile. In addition, they envision "3 to 4 out of 10" trips being "mid-day" trips, such as from office to lunch and back, and those too going by an alternate transit system.
A short Question and Answer period grew quite long, and I was surprised to find that a number of the questions showed people to be on the fence about this type of system.
A number of concerns were about the impact to business during construction. Apparently Portland closes small sections of the street for 3 to 4 weeks and then moves down the road to minimize the effects on businesses.
What mistakes that others have made?
Local Political Conflict (Who runs the street car) and "Eyes bigger than Stomach" (Designed a 10 mile, $300M project which will never be built). The thought for our own streetcar is to limit it to a two or three mile stretch initially. "We can't build 5 or 10 miles" - Charlie Hales
Where do we find funding? Transit Benefit Districts, which were described to me as "like a wedding cake" where the properties closest to the line paid the largest amount for the benefit it provides, then those a block away or so pay a lesser amount, an those two blocks away even less.
My question: Does this limit the available funding for other projects such as CRC or the future expansion of light rail beyond CRC and didn't the FTA just tell Portland in essence "No new rail"? I was told that CRC and this were two separate projects. A bit more prodding and I was told that CRC is funded under "New Starts" a large scale development fund, and something like this would be funded federally by "Small Starts". Additionally, the Federal Transportation Act is set to expire in 2009 and a new draft is being prepared for adoption in September of that year. There was the opinion that the new draft would be favorable to rail developments.
We then broke into groups and talked about "Is Vancouver Ready" and what places the community woud like to access.
"Is Vancouver Ready?"
I think my small group was comfortable saying Vancouver is ready to talk about it, but that we needed to consider things like the impact of the CRC project, its mass transit alignment, and the actual density of downtown. There's currently no problem finding parking in downtown on non-work days and the number of residents in downtown to use such a system is limited. It certainly doesn't seem to make sense to draw up a route before understanding where light rail might go and what will be served by that system.
Areas identified as destinations for a possible streetcar:
Boise Cascade
Esther Short Park
City Hall
Court house
New Library
Fort Vancouver
Marshall Center
VA Hospital
Clark College
Uptown Village
Grocery, Schools, and other livabilty needs
Unfortunately, I didn't get the chance to stay and see what the other groups though and what kind of route they drew as a whole. It did seem, based on a little excersize that many people had the same destinations in mind.
While sitting there I drew a little map to link as many of these together as I could. Later I went back and added a loop to the Court House... essentially I ended up with this: <a href="http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&t=h&om=1&msa=0&msid=100236860735977085239.000437d24b09ef1f482eb&ll=45.631085,-122.658834&spn=0.040633,0.080338&z=14 ">My new streetcar route post AIA meeting</a>. Looks a lot like chief's but instead of cutting through the Fort, it turns north. It links Boise Cascade, Esther Short, new Library, Fort Vancouver, Marshal Center, Clark College, VA Hospital and is ready to extend onto Fourth Plain. It also crosses the proposed light rail tracks for connection to that system. The loop on the downtown is an addition I put on to be a "circulator" for moving people around downtown, and to get access to the Court House.
I don't know though, with all the talk of development and couplets, I could see it being split northward on two different streets and going whichever way the CRC light rail doesn't go. If LRT goes to Clark College, this goes through uptown village, if LRT goes up Main st, this goes over to Clark College via McLoughlin.
I also got to sit next to Ginger Metcalf during the small group session who tried to sell me on the Lincoln Park and Ride for the benefit of the community 20 years from now. I told her that 20 years from now I would hope that light rail has expanded to the point where we don't need people to drive into town and transfer to the train. She seemed to agree with that point.
She later made a gagging face about the mural projects written in the paper. I don't know what that was about.
Let's see, I also learned that Jeffrey Mize did not go on the City Council Street car ride (hence no write-up), and that 2 council members didn't go, "one was ill, and the other refused". I didn't get who was ill, but I'm sure you can guess who refused.
Matt Ransom said that City Council was told two weeks ago that light rail along I-5 would require "moving the freeway" and the demolition of Shumway area homes. A completely different story than I've heard presented by the CRC team everytime I've heard their presentations (more than I can count now). He also said "There will be a toll, guaranteed."
Finally, apparently during the planning phases Trimet refered to the Portland Streetcar the "Donkey Trolley".
There was a lot of talk about the development and density opportunities along a streetcar line, even more so than light rail they said because street cars stop so frequently. Charlie Hales, Commisioner in Charge of the Portland Streetcar during it's construction, said "How much change do you want? This is a change agent." Thayer Rorabaugh suggested that our community is aging and "the 10,000 sqft lot is not for us anymore. I'm looking to downsize, Charlie has downsized." (I didn't stop them to mention I JUST bought a 10,000 sqft lot three years ago and that my friends who are thinking of families are looking for the same.) In speaking to the group, Thayer also said that the drive for this needs to come from the community and business owners, "It can't be government that drives this." Some examples of the benefit to businesses were given in that tourists use the Portland Streetcar "as their tour guide" because of its visibility, reliability(they know it goes back to their hotel) and cost (free) which has been beneficial for businesses along its route. Especially those who stand out visually. For maximizing this type of benfit (and presumably the tax support for the train as well ... see funding below) the idea of a couplet seemed favorable to many people, where the train would actually go north on one street and south a couple blocks over.
In the Boise Cascade Site the Developer and Architect "didn't have to be sold" on street car. They've already included the line in their preliminary drawings. It was brought up a couple times that with the limited access to the site through three, maybe four, two-lane roads the street car could be an important access piece. Thayer Roragaugh said "We may not get it with the first round of buildings, but we can plan to keep utilities and such out of the way."
Matt Ransom presented that in the long term plan for downtown they expect gridlock and envision "2 out of 10" trips in the city being trips into and out of the city center through other modes of transportation than automobile. In addition, they envision "3 to 4 out of 10" trips being "mid-day" trips, such as from office to lunch and back, and those too going by an alternate transit system.
A short Question and Answer period grew quite long, and I was surprised to find that a number of the questions showed people to be on the fence about this type of system.
A number of concerns were about the impact to business during construction. Apparently Portland closes small sections of the street for 3 to 4 weeks and then moves down the road to minimize the effects on businesses.
What mistakes that others have made?
Local Political Conflict (Who runs the street car) and "Eyes bigger than Stomach" (Designed a 10 mile, $300M project which will never be built). The thought for our own streetcar is to limit it to a two or three mile stretch initially. "We can't build 5 or 10 miles" - Charlie Hales
Where do we find funding? Transit Benefit Districts, which were described to me as "like a wedding cake" where the properties closest to the line paid the largest amount for the benefit it provides, then those a block away or so pay a lesser amount, an those two blocks away even less.
My question: Does this limit the available funding for other projects such as CRC or the future expansion of light rail beyond CRC and didn't the FTA just tell Portland in essence "No new rail"? I was told that CRC and this were two separate projects. A bit more prodding and I was told that CRC is funded under "New Starts" a large scale development fund, and something like this would be funded federally by "Small Starts". Additionally, the Federal Transportation Act is set to expire in 2009 and a new draft is being prepared for adoption in September of that year. There was the opinion that the new draft would be favorable to rail developments.
We then broke into groups and talked about "Is Vancouver Ready" and what places the community woud like to access.
"Is Vancouver Ready?"
I think my small group was comfortable saying Vancouver is ready to talk about it, but that we needed to consider things like the impact of the CRC project, its mass transit alignment, and the actual density of downtown. There's currently no problem finding parking in downtown on non-work days and the number of residents in downtown to use such a system is limited. It certainly doesn't seem to make sense to draw up a route before understanding where light rail might go and what will be served by that system.
Areas identified as destinations for a possible streetcar:
Boise Cascade
Esther Short Park
City Hall
Court house
New Library
Fort Vancouver
Marshall Center
VA Hospital
Clark College
Uptown Village
Grocery, Schools, and other livabilty needs
Unfortunately, I didn't get the chance to stay and see what the other groups though and what kind of route they drew as a whole. It did seem, based on a little excersize that many people had the same destinations in mind.
While sitting there I drew a little map to link as many of these together as I could. Later I went back and added a loop to the Court House... essentially I ended up with this: <a href="http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&t=h&om=1&msa=0&msid=100236860735977085239.000437d24b09ef1f482eb&ll=45.631085,-122.658834&spn=0.040633,0.080338&z=14 ">My new streetcar route post AIA meeting</a>. Looks a lot like chief's but instead of cutting through the Fort, it turns north. It links Boise Cascade, Esther Short, new Library, Fort Vancouver, Marshal Center, Clark College, VA Hospital and is ready to extend onto Fourth Plain. It also crosses the proposed light rail tracks for connection to that system. The loop on the downtown is an addition I put on to be a "circulator" for moving people around downtown, and to get access to the Court House.
I don't know though, with all the talk of development and couplets, I could see it being split northward on two different streets and going whichever way the CRC light rail doesn't go. If LRT goes to Clark College, this goes through uptown village, if LRT goes up Main st, this goes over to Clark College via McLoughlin.
I also got to sit next to Ginger Metcalf during the small group session who tried to sell me on the Lincoln Park and Ride for the benefit of the community 20 years from now. I told her that 20 years from now I would hope that light rail has expanded to the point where we don't need people to drive into town and transfer to the train. She seemed to agree with that point.
She later made a gagging face about the mural projects written in the paper. I don't know what that was about.
Let's see, I also learned that Jeffrey Mize did not go on the City Council Street car ride (hence no write-up), and that 2 council members didn't go, "one was ill, and the other refused". I didn't get who was ill, but I'm sure you can guess who refused.
Matt Ransom said that City Council was told two weeks ago that light rail along I-5 would require "moving the freeway" and the demolition of Shumway area homes. A completely different story than I've heard presented by the CRC team everytime I've heard their presentations (more than I can count now). He also said "There will be a toll, guaranteed."
Finally, apparently during the planning phases Trimet refered to the Portland Streetcar the "Donkey Trolley".