Would you love to...

[Waterbuffalo]

Here is a 30 second video of "WHY I would not" want to visit, live near or be around Killian Pacific, Gramor, the Reserve or cross the Confluence Project Bridge. Would you enjoy this level of noise?

Source:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Pwo_6oTpqw

[Chief]

That was just the traffic noise. Throw in a full flight of F-15's doing a combat scramble out of PDX on top of that...

[Waterbuffalo]

Yeah and add them blowing train whistles 24/7 and the active port sitting right next to it.

As one said, its a developing story that no one wants to cover..

[Chief]

Not sure if train whistles will be much of an issue once the new spur is done.

I think the bigger issue will be the low frequency noise generated by the freight trains and transmitted into the ground that people will find most disconcerting. A loaded railroad car makes an amazing amount of noise and vibration when it rolls. In addition, diesel engines generate a ton of low frequency rumblings. All of that adds up to ground vibration that can easily transmit itself right into a building. The new spur will no doubt be built on deep pilings in the underlying rock, right beside the foundations of whatever buildings Gramor wants to build right up against the edge of the property line that will no doubt be anchored in that very same rock. Who knows how well that will transmit vibrations??

We have a friend who bought a condo over on the Willamette in the Pearl, in one of the first units built over there across the river from the grain terminals, right beside the Broadway Bridge. Shortly after he moved in, he was awakened at 3:00 AM because the whole building was vibrating and rumbling. He looked out of the balcony, and across the way, 2 tugs were docking a grain ship at the elevator. and the vibration from their engines was what was shaking the building. In that case, it was the sound waves coming off of the tug stacks that were pointed back at the building that caused the problem. It was something that people just had to deal with if they decided to live there.

Nose is a serious concern down there. Even if the City had nothing to do with this project financially, even if Gramor was financing all of this, streets, tunnels and everything by themselves, I would still question the viability of it on noise conditions alone. The problems look pretty severe to me, and I am not a structural engineeer. I could be completely wrong about how noisy this is going to be, but I don't think I am. I realize there are ways to attenuate sound through good design and construction practices, but those things only add significant costs to the construction, and Gramor is up to thier eyeballs in potential debt right now, without any special considerations for the designs, or seismic surveys of the grounds to see just how bad the vibrations really are.

I'd love to see some smart young high school science student go down there by Ester Street, and measure how much the ground vibrates when a train goes by. (That's not out of reach, and would make for one hell of a dandy Science Fair Project... ) I'm betting that it's strong enough to shake that new columbian building, and keep Lou from enjoying his afternoon siesta in that shiny new office...

So if anyone knows of some kid looking for a good project for school, let them know I will underwrite a reasonable cost for tools, materials, and test equipment to help make such an effort so...

;D

[Waterbuffalo]

Your new post added some new ideas I have never considered.

If you go on to youtube, you will find a number of Vancouver and Portland area trains who took videos of local trains. This would show the same exact thing as you were describing..)

Low latent noise from Trains, but add in the noise from docking ships, did I add to this list all the noise and whistles that the Port businesses need in case of an accident or emergency at one of the Port properties?

Does any of the Port properties or businesses have alarms for break-ins or emergencies, shitt-change horns to let employees know its time to change shifts, or horns on those ships coming up and down the river? There has to be a LOT of these?

[Waterbuffalo]

<Bumps topic..>

Sorry but the ICC made me do it! :-)

Guess who is complaining about those lovely whistles two months after we posted it?