Gramor Development of Tualatin, OR; and Boise Cascade Property

[Chief]

Gramor Development of Tualatin was identified by the Columbian on December 21, as the party who is negoitiating with the City on the development of the Bosie Cascade Property in Downtown Vancouver.

I did a Google search, and found their Corporate website, here is the link

http://www.gramor.com/

I looked at the site, and surfed what there is of it, and found little information, and no e-mail address of any kind. From the Gramor website, here is the contact information that they provide.

Gramor Development
19767 SW 72nd Ave., Suite 100
Tualatin, OR 97062

T:503.245.1976
F:503.654.9188

Last night, I prepared a fax, and sent it to that number. Here is the text of what I sent to them.

QUOTE

I have read the reports in the Business Section of the Oregonian, and on the front page of the Columbian, concerning your involvement in the ongoing development at the Boise Cascade property across the railroad tracks from downtown Vancouver. I thought it might benefit your deliberations with the City if you heard from a real taxpayer in America’s Vancouver, one of the people whose money is about to be used to try and benefit your development.
Know this:
As a taxpayer and a homeowner in the City of Vancouver, I will publicly and loudly oppose any and every attempt to spend any public money on this project. The City cannot find a way to finance even 10% of the projects it has on books right now, as per the City’s own TIP, so we have no business even discussing a project of the magnitude that some City leaders appear to be quite willing to back.
Tell your investors that there is no consensus or agreement whatsoever from the taxpayers, to spend anything on this project. And despite what the City of Vancouver wants to believe, I don’t think that the Railroad is going to contribute anything to this, because their only interest in this project is to ensure nothing delays any of those 45 trains that go past there every single day.
I operate a private blog at www.clarkblog.org, and this subject will be a frequent and well-documented topic there in the coming weeks and months. This message isn’t about the blog, it’s about spending my money wisely. This project ain’t it. Feel free to come to the site and try to convince me and my friends (and fellow taxpayers) that this is a good idea.

UNQUOTE

I don't expect a response, but I do expect that fax will raise a few eyebrows there...

Developing...

[Chief]

Clarkblog's good friend Sensibilist, has been talking about how ridiculous all of the discussion at City Hall is, every time they bring up the subject of "returns on investments in Downtown". Here's a link to his comments about this...

http://sensibilist.com/wp/?p=1

What school of economic thought Burdick subscribes to is still undetermined, and probably unknown to even the vast majority of economists, and even humans, to this very day.

These very “people” of course, are the same ones that can’t provide for roads and basic services. Why you ask? Let me be genteel here. Because they’re pissing it down the drain, that’s why!

Giving $400,000 to Arch Miller in free rent for his exclusively snobbish, yet quaintly unimpressive, restaurant staffed by student slaves of his “culinary institute”. 10 year major tax abatements for condo owners.

Wonder if those costs were taken into account? No. You see GAAP (Generally Accepted Accounting Principles) do not apply to the “pie in the sky” economics practiced by government entities.

Isn’t it nice that taxpayer dollars are funding investment objectives to make another entity, as they in the city see themselves, money? Where is the citizens prospectus? You just gotta love it. Why would anyone actually admit, in writing no less, that they’ve cornered the market on fiscal incompetence?

**SCHNIPP**

Ed's exactly right about that, and City Council is using this exact argument again to try and justify spending tens of million on the Boise Cascade site, just to get access to it. Tim Leavitt correctly claims that the City has committed no funds to the site.

Yet.

Developing...

[Chief]

I have heard from credible sources, that there are a growing number of Contractors and their Subs in Portland, who refuse to do business with Gramor Development because of contractual problems, and disagreements about getting paid in a timely manner...

Developing...

[karma]

Pissssst . . . . . . there are several that I have heard that about! I'm sure glad you brought that up!!1 >:D

[sensibilist]

Another Terry Hiller situation in the making, eh?

You think that's something. Watch what happens to the Denny's site. It's NOT about the "D" Street "vacation". Bet that will become city hall on a lease with option to purchase with the existing city hall becoming parking with additional office space and sky bridges all around. Angelo makes a profit, and the city figures out how to bond this, and the entire area out for a city complex....all the while subverting public process until the very last minute.

Pat "the jackal" McDonnell sure seemed proud of an incomplete plan of smoke and mirrors this past Monday. Further, bet it will be held over for action until the holiday season when they get much of their garbage passed quickly as few are watching?

"Vancouver U.S.A.-Screwing Taxpayers for the Holidays and throughout the year"

[Chief]

But wait Ed, according to <a href="http://frogstar.soylentgeek.com/wav/mad-hell.wav">Larry Patella</a>, all of you just sent those rascals "a message".

I'm sure Pat is rethinking all of this right now, likely didn't sleep a wink last night, and will be packing his office, anticipating his imminent departure as soon as Charlie Stemper and Pat Campbell get sworn in and start cleaning house...

No doubt Gramor Development got the same message from all of you and will announce the cancellation of the Boise Cascade site project any time now...

::)

[sensibilist]

I didn't send anyone a message Chief, nor did they send me one, I just voted. That's it.

Those without conscience sleep well, and I doubt he's packing, as he's got all of our elected officials in this city playing like well tuned fiddles. Pat McDonnell is the cancer that has resulted in this abberation called city government, though it does give me such personal joy to see him scurry away when he sees my bald ass...like a rat jumpin' ship!!!

It's never the load that breaks the camel's back, it's that one last straw.

As far as Gramor, that could happen, as only a governmental agency, with eminent domain powers and deep bond pockets could pull off the considerable barriers that exist, such as environmental, locational, railroad, together with airspace considerations. All in all this project is a 20 year cluster %$%^....or a career in and of itself.

But it won't be due to any message. It's about money.

[karma]

Sensi, isn't it just amazing how they scurry away and here I thought it was just me??? Just like a couple of jobs I have applied for, when they find out who you are will no way will they hire you? I agree, it's all about 'Money' here!! Whom can they fill their buddies pockets with it??

[Chief]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v645/SeniorChieftain/them.jpg

[karma]

No oh wise one, "It's Good Olde Boys!!"

[Pat Campbell]

A topic than continues to pop up is the need for a staging area to build the new bridge. Without getting into a discussion about the need for the bridge(s) (I-5 and the railroad), wouldn't the Boise Cascade property be somewhat suitable as a staging area?

[Chief]

I would think Pat. It's a logical spot, but until they actually settle on a design, nothing can go in there. And if they choose a downstream alignment for the new bridge, it would go over part of the Quay property.

[Waterbuffalo]

Chief: Was CRC planning a downstream bridge or upstream bridge as one of the alternatives?

Can't remember.. Guess I need to go look at the CRC site again..

[Chief]

Both are alternatives, and they have not decided on either one yet. Both present substantial problems, as well as different "footprints" where the bridge crosses the shoreline.

[Waterbuffalo]

Just my thoughts.

All of the CRC bridges and ideas are going to have some impact on Gramor and KP's development.

Just depends on where it lands on the Vancouver side and where they are going to put all of that construction equipment for both the construction and demolition of Interstate bridge when this bridge is finally completed.

This thread just brought up a nice idea.. Where are they going to put all of the construction equipment?

[Chief]

It is an outstanding question, isn't it??

Take a look at the overlap of the Construction too. About the time Gramor has their first Condo up for sale is when the Bridge construction could feasably start ramping up; and the last I heard from the project engineers, they were looking at a five year construction window, minimum.

Back to Gramor though, I recall seeing that they wanted to close on the Boise site within 45 days....four weeks ago...

[Waterbuffalo]

Going to add, where does Gramor think they are going to stick those nice Cranes to lift into place all those pilings, cement girders, and other nice construction thingys?

Sounds like two developments are going to have a nice window on Vancouver's next big project!

[Waterbuffalo]

Forgot to add columbian's building on it's roof will be a great place for them to photo op it as well..

[Chief]

That's another good point...how do you get all those building materials in to that site??

Think you're going to route trucks full of structural steel, and hundreds of loads of concrete in there via Ester Street??

Or maybe they will go in via the Quay's parking lot.

I don't give it very good odds that the railroad will be allowing Gramor's contractors to crane anything over the railroad berm under any circumstances either; even if there was a proper place to stage it in the first place.

Logistics are everything..

[Waterbuffalo]

If the BNSF things work out right, the taxpayers of Washington state or City of Vancouver are going to build tunnels through the berm and move trackage to align it up to the Port.. This is how they will be able to get the stuff in..

Did Gerald explain this in his speech during Downtown Revitalization or am I all under the Columbia River Torrent?

[Chief]

The Port of Vancouver reluctantly made it clear that in the shadow of the defeat of the IDD Levy, and the announced recommendations of the downstream bridge alignment for the Columbia Crossing Project, the Commission is now willing to consider the sale of excess Port Property, specifically Terminal 1 and the Quay.

The bridge alignment takes the highway spans right over the center of the building, and the light rail bridge will go downstream of that.

If the Port of Vancouver is now recognizing that despite their best efforts to protect the riverfront access that the Quay provided, how can we continue to ignore the fantasies of Gramor Development and the City of Vancouver for the rest of the Boise Cascade site??

Time for some hard answers to questions like this, because it's high time, and there is no reasonable prospect that anyone will buy a condo built right next to what the Columbia Crossing Project is proposing to build. It cannot be both ways, because these 2 projects are mutually exclusive of one another.

At best, if the land tests out to be clean enough, a Public greenway or park might be suitable for that site, considering it will be overshadowed by the new bridge construction. At worst, the whole site could be easily rezoned for an appropriate industrial use that requires riverfront access, and is it really so bad to add more industrial jobs on the waterfront, in that specific area?

Comments are welcomed...

[Waterbuffalo]

After what happened at the Task Force meeting, let them have it!

Have the Port of Vancouver sell the land that occupies the Quay and other property to whom ever eventually controls the Vancouver side of it. Honestly, I could care less. If someone wants to build, sell or own condominiums right next to three "ACTIVE" Train lines that will make noise even if they put a tunnel it away or blares the horns because of 8th street crossing, growing and will continue to grow Port of Vancouver, Pdx over fights, over flights of Pearson AIrpark planes, Columbia River Crossing bridge that will be shining all of its lights and emergency lights right off the the condos and business districts in that area.

On top of the Merryl Lynch or who ever is the owner of Jantzen Beach Mall is talking about redeveloping it. Where is all that light and noise going to end up? When they take down the Thunderbird Hotel or former Red Lion property, this whole area is going to be flooded with new light and noise from all the people going across the bridge and saving money from all the taxes that flow across the river, "Guess who's gets to see the light?"

Then you add in the new tunnel and sound proofing walls that will be tunneling the noise to the north and south along the I-5 corridor and where is all of that noise going to escape from all the cars, trucks and light rail coming into town?

Going to get off my set-top-box and find some thing to do clear my brain out from tonights TF meeting.

[Chief]

Great comments WB; I think we agree that noise of all descriptions is dooming the entire Boise site. It's just the reality of the situation we face, and I personally would se it as a poitive move by the City, if they backed off of this whole project in support of the Columbia Crossing.

There is no escaping that Boise Cascade is the only place on the Washington side of the BIA where construction material and equipment can be staged for at least five years after construction starts. Even if the land was developable in some way, it is likely going to be close to a decade before anyonw would reasonably expect to break ground on anything in there. And if that is the case, then there is no need to commit any amount of money toward those tunnels to provide access, and the matter needs to be tabled at the very least.

It's a matter of setting realistic priorities, and last night the CRC made clear what those priorities are going to be.

I think it's also significant that all talk of a "cap" over I-5 has disapeared entirely, although I think there is probably some quiet engineering still going on just in case. In reality, what the City asked for is likely so expensive in order to meet code as to be impossible. In adidition, no design can move forward until a transit alignment is committed to or abandoned entirely.

Last night should have given people a good feel for how complicated this isue is, and how many different things have to be considered to do anything of this scope.

[Waterbuffalo]

Sorry I got really hot ironed out last night after a lot of the BS I heard.

But my new points is: Are they going to have to repay to rebuild Confluence Bridge into something more gala than it is because it won't fit any version of Columbia River Crossing variations?