Trains' daylong rumble unsettles riverfront plans

[Chief]

No link, this is in today's print edition of the Oregonian, in the Business Section.

Clarkblog's favorite reporter, Allan Brettman is reporting on this, and in a rare cooincidence, so is Johnathan Nelson for the Columbian. This is a rare opportunity to comapre how this story is being covered.

The gist of this is reports that the Developer on the Boise Cascade property across the railroad tracks from Downtown Vancouver, is balking about access to the property. If you read the Columbian, you might believe that this is simply about smoothing out the plans to build "better access" to the site.

If you read the Oregonian though, it is clear that the devloper is worrid aobut building all of thos e dense, high cost Condos that the Mayor wants, because people may not want to live next to the railroad tracks where there are at least 45 major trains rumbling through, every single day.

Well Duh!!!

The other interesting tidbit here, is that in the Columbian, the only mention of cost is from Steve Burdick, the City of Vancouver's Economic Development Manager. He says about the cost" "It's going to be a big number".

If you read the Oregonian, Allan Brettman has this to say:

"One of the vehicle underpasses would cost $6 Million to $8 Million, and the other $20 Million to $25 Million, said Thayer Rohrbaugh, City Transportation Director. It's not known who will pay, but Rohrbaugh expects participants would include the city, BNSF and the developer, mayber others."


Here we go again!! And you propbably thought that the only rail issue we had to be Naysayers about was Light Rail!!

Here is a hard fact: BNSF isn't going to pay a red cent toward this scheme, because they don't have to. They own the right of way for the tracks, and whatever it costs to build these underpasses, I will bet you a Steak Dinner that the railroad doesn't cough up one thin dime, because the Railroads' only interest in this is to make sure the City doesn't disrupt the movenment of those 45 trains in and out every day.

So who does that leave to pay for this?? That's right, it ain't "The City", its the taxpayers in the City, once again, and we can't afford this scheme either!!

And keep in mind folks that we are only talking about the cost of underpasses through the railroad berm. Once those are built, then somone has to pay for the streets, sidewalks, landscaping, and all of the other perks that Mayor Pollard and Company want for their version of Portland's Pearl District.

I'm telling you that "Naysayer" is a badge of courage in this town and ought to be worn with pride!! We had better start rounding up several thousand well informed Naysayers in one big hurry before "Rolls" Royce and Crew spend us all into oblivion with their "investments"!

yeesh!!

[Chief]

Updating this story with a link, and the original text. I had forgotton that I originally posted this off of the Print edition, so here 'tis.

http://www.oregonlive.com/search/index.ssf?/base/business/1166675115228260.xml?oregonian?fng&coll=7

Trains' daylong rumble unsettles riverfront plans
Boise Cascade site - Gramor Development is exploring access through a BNSF line in Vancouver

Thursday, December 21, 2006
ALLAN BRETTMAN

VANCOUVER -- BNSF Railway trains averaging one-mile long rumble past downtown Vancouver about 45 times a day. The rail line, just one of four lines connecting Oregon and Washington to points eastward, is an important artery for freight of all types.

In the coming years, the economic reality needs to mesh with thousands of residents expected to fill offices, condominiums and apartments in a gleaming new development on the Columbia riverfront.

The cooperative existence is off to an uncertain start.

The potential buyer of 29 acres west of the Interstate Bridge has postponed plans for an end-of-year deal closing, awaiting more clarity about access to the site through the BNSF Railway berm.

City, state and Port of Vancouver officials are working to find a solution.

City officials anticipate the former Boise Cascade mill site will be the next big thing in downtown's urban renaissance. Riverside residences, offices, retail, restaurants and a hotel are envisioned. The city has enjoyed praise for the makeover of Esther Short Park directly north, and the construction of a new Hilton hotel, a convention center, offices, condominiums and apartments.

But the potential riverside buyer needs more clarity.

"We're just still continuing to conduct our due diligence," said David C. Copenhaver, vice president of development of Gramor Development Inc., a commercial real estate company based in Tualatin. Gramor heads a group that includes several Clark County residents, including Copenhaver.

Copenhaver said no other date for a real estate closing has been set. Terms of the deal, announced Aug. 1, have not been revealed.

"I don't know," Copenhaver said. "When you're conducting a due diligence, you're trying to determine the feasibility. If there's no access to it, we can't develop it."

Two vehicle underpasses through the berm are proposed to connect the 29-acre site to downtown. Plans also call for a separate underpass for pedestrians only.

One of the vehicle underpasses would cost $6 million to $8 million and the other $20 million to $25 million, said Thayer Rorabaugh, city transportation director. It's not known who will pay, but Rorabaugh expects participants would include the city, BNSF and the developer, maybe others.

It's unknown what conditions BNSF would set for construction. The rail line most likely would have to shift to a "shoo fly" -- railroad parlance for an alternate line --during the 15- to 18-month construction span. It's expected that BNSF would require both underpasses to be built simultaneously to minimize disruption to its traffic.

BNSF, which anticipates increasing the number of trains passing through Vancouver, is working "to resolve access issues," a spokesman said.

City officials, meantime, hope Gramor and its partners can start construction by 2010, maybe 2009.

Allan Brettman: 360-896-5746 or 503-294-5900; allanbrettman@news.oregonian.com

[Chief]

Updating....

http://clarkblog.org/index.php?topic=717.0

The section, branching from one of the two existing east-west rail lines, would start at the Columbia Street overpass and extend west to the western edge of the Boise Cascade property.

Eventually, four track construction projects will be added, extending west to the planned Columbia Gateway property.

Port officials have said the rail improvements are needed to accommodate an expected increase in rail traffic from 45,000 cars entering the Port annually now to an expected 160,000 by 2025. The improvements also are expected to reduce delays in the regional rail network.

WOW!!

I wonder if all those freight cars rumbling past every day will keep Lou Brancaccio awake in that shiny new office of his....

;D

[Pat Campbell]

The track layout will be difficult to change. Any changes cannot interfere with railroad operations and maintain the current grade level. They will have to be completed to current BNSF standards and the switchover will need to take place in a moment of time. My guess is the new route with its underpasses or bridges will have to be totally prepared and completed parallel to the current route prior to switchover by BNSF. This will of necessity disrupt businesses in the area including the Hilton. BNSF as mentioned before is unlikely to help out financially. It will be us city taxpayers who will pay for this transportation "improvement" that will benefit the non-taxpaying condo investors.

How about an alternative? Let the Cowlitz develop the Boise Cascade property and pay for the transportation improvements with Mohegan money? They might even take the Hilton off our hands and absorb some of the parking structure excess we seem to have. It would also seem that it would liven up the downtown area at night and help with small business profitability. With the history of the Frontier Room in the area and the Native American affinity for Columbia riverfront, this would seem a no brainer. ;D

[Charlie]

Pat,
That's what I call a winning plan for everyone. It would add life to downtown Vancouver and people would see it as a destination. It would help the economy of both Vancouver and Clark County.

[Chief]

That's one hell of a good idea Pat! If there really is such a demand for condos and such on that piece of property, there should be no need for the City to spend a dime....

Fiigure the odds that it will happen though...

[Pat Campbell]

There almost have to be some old bones on the Boise property; like have been found in the past on similar properties up north. We need an archaeological assessment now. If we find enough DNA to tie this all to Dave Bartlett, we have a winner for sure. ;D

[Chief]

After perusing the Sunday morning "Pravda on the Columbia", I found two paragraphs in the Business section that are worth mentioning...

The first is on pageE-1

Grant and Esther Streets

Negotiations continue over street access to the Boise Cascade waterfront site. The latest concept calls for underpasses at Grant and Ester Streets. Who will pay for what part of the road work among the city, the Port of Vancouver, Boise and Gramor Development is still the issue. But despite not signing off on the sale, Gramor's bid is so much greater than the next best bid, Boise is willing to wait.

**SCHNIPP**

yah. I'll bet Gramor's bid is significantly higher, since the City has guaranteed ten year Property Tax exclusions for anyone who buys a Condo in the development, and that the City is willing to sink Millions of tax dollars into building underpasses, streets, sidewalks, sewer, water, etc.

And I will be asking the Port of Vancouver exactly what it is they are being asked to do for that site. I see no fiancial responsibility for the Port either, other than to construct the spur line into the Port for the Columbia Gateway project.

[karma]

I'm sorry but I'm not going to jump on this crock of crap!! That is flood land and the Indians' past history knows this as they built on higher ground. It's useless piece of ground that should be farmed and not developed just like the river views to the east, a another know flood area.
Anyone that developes on the flood plain should be shot!! You boys should be ashamed of yourselves and the Casino is needed in La Center where it is stated to go for more reasons than you will ever know.

Besides whom talked to BNSF about this??? All one has to do is look across the river at the area of Kenton to the north and the slums that area is with the port and rail area, do you honestly want our area to look like that??

[Pat Campbell]

Karma you are brutally correct.

State Farm is my insurer. Do you think State Farm will cover these condos? Who is providing the coverage for the other condos upriver? Maybe Jeanne Harris, our local Farmers agent, knows... Maybe our realtor councilor knows ...

[karma]

You mean she knows Jack??? Sorry Pat but acts of nature aren't covered by most policies and Harris should know this?? But again it's only insurance and they will sell you anything??

[Chief]

bumping for review as well...

[Waterbuffalo]

Now this one was a good bump.. Really enjoyed what was posted on this thread.

Do you think we should bump some of the WVFAP points too?