Sooo.....

[Waterbuffalo]

What is going to happen when we get 100's of trains running through that area? Hope they enjoy their free views being tarnished by PDX over-flights, trains blowing their warning whistles, and my favorite all of that nice, *NEW* port facilities going in west of them..

Those tugs and cranes are going to have to make some measure of noise from the port. Sorry guys, but this is the *WORST* place to put a walking, street, and unlivable community..

What happens if the Columbia River Floods in that area, the rail road burm cuts off their escape routes and the rail road bridge/Interstate 5 bridges block them in?
smells some thing bad is going to come in that area. /

[Chief]

Exactly right! It wasn't all that long ago the restaurants just above the interstate bridges found out the hard way what happens in a 100 year flood...

I keep hearing about what a "public asset" the amphitheater at Terminal one is; but I have yet to hear from anyone who has a suggestion of which band sounds best when backed up by traffic noise from I-5, and the rhythm of 145,000 clacking freight cars in and out of the Port every day.

Vancouver owe's it's very existence to our industrial roots, and we ignore them at our peril.

[Waterbuffalo]

Just remembered during the 1996 floods where the water came up right under the Interstate 5 bridge and it took out the basements of the hotels around each and every side of the bridges with significant damage and ruin of stuff.

Didn't Vancouver used to suffer from some of the biggest floods in the US during the 1940-50s?

And why the hell are we building in that area?

[Chief]

The Columbia and Willamette River basins both used to suffer from regular devastating floods before the dams went in that finally tamed them both. PDX would not be where it is today without extensive dikes, and the flood control that the dams provide.

Here's another thought...the Port of Vancouver insists that the Alcoa/Evergreen site will be cleaned to "Industrial Standards", meaning that the site will be shovel ready to build another industrial facitlity. That is a tacit acknowledgement that the site is unsuitable for any other use, including residential, or park space. In order to get that site cleaned to the highest standard, you would probably have to physically remove and replace untold thousands of cubic yards of contaminated soil, and pay to truck it to a secure landfill, then replace it with the same volume of clean fill. Not cheap.

At the Boise Site, I am not aware that any comprehensive examination of the site has ever been conducted to see where the hotspots of contamination are. That site held a papermill for decades, and there is no telling what was spilled, or otherwise leached into the soil down there. The City has razed the old buildings, but the foundations are still there, and who know what is buried under them? The kind of environmental survey that such a site demands does not come cheap, so I doubt Gramor would bother with it unless forced to do so.

There is also the railroad spur that transects the property that has also been there for decades, and there is no telling what is in the soil under that. Certainly at a minimum I would expect petroleum product contamination, extensive creosote leaching from the rail ties, along with what ever else dripped or leaked off of any rail stock that ever used that spur.

It's confusing that on one hand we hold the Columbia Gateway to such a high environmental standard, and just a mile or so away, we are ignoring some of the very same issues at the Bosie Cascade site in a mad dash to build over 3,000 condos AND another hotel on a site with serious environmental issues attached to it.



In addition to the lack of access, the potential for serious flooding, noise from the railroad, Interstate Bridges, and I-5, I have seen no guarantee whatsoever that the site is environmentally suitable and safe for the purpose it is intended.

[Waterbuffalo]

Looks like you've had some time to vent, scream, holler and post about said subject.

But one thing I just thought off might add a new dimension to the said project, what happens if the enviromentalist in say ten or twenty years are able to get the federal government to take out a couple nice key water dams on the Snake that they have been wanting for years to get rid of..

Should I worry then about the site with all that water that used to be held back is now coming down from the Snake River during winters rainy season? (on or in the gramor property.)

Well if they don;t clear up the enviromental concerns, they can always enjoy the view of the Loot Rail, new Interstate 5 bridge, barges, whistle stop service from BNSF and UP, Air traffic from PDX and Pearson and my all time favorite Fireworks display once a year that always seems begging for money..

[Waterbuffalo]

Just came up with another creative idea that Gramor may have not thought up. What happens when Jantsen Beach redevelops and they have 24/7 lights across the water?
Wonder what the mayor will think when walmart, target and another mall type thing moves in when they are done and the residences in this cluster have to live with their front windows fronting that new shopping mall in about ten years?

[Chief]

I attended the groundbreaking for the Port of Vancouver's rail access project today, and it was held inside of the Boise Cascade site. That is the first opportunity I have ever had to stand inside of the center of that property. Go look at the pictures I posted in the Groundbreaking thread, and you will see that it was held on the old concrete papermill floor; there are still makings visible on the concrete.

While I was standing there, a pair of locomotives moved into the West side of the berm trackage, and when he hit his air horn, it echoed loudly enough to make everyone jump, even though he was at least a half-mile off.

The other phenomenon that was pretty obvious, was the way the sound of jets taking off from PDX echoed inside the bowl that is formed by the berm. I can only imagine what the acoustics will be like in there once they build a nice reflecting wall of glass condo windows, that focuses the sound at the waterfront, on weekends when the Air National Guard is flying. I got there early, and there were a couple of flights of F-15s that took off out of PDX, and went right over the top of us. It was so loud that you could not carry on a conversation at all.

Now that is a serious consideration to anyone who is thinking of locating down into what the Mayor referred to as "The New City" that he wants to create down there. We already have flight path intrusions by the Crossing towers, plenty of people who bitch incessantly about overflights not only from PDX, but Pearson Field as well.

The question now becomes, who is going to buy one of those $300,000 and up Condos, when there is an absolute assurance that they will live permanently in the noise shadow from PDX with no chance of relief? In fact, the jet noise will likely get worse as PDX continues with it's expansion plans.

You cannot imagine how loud it is until you stand right in the middle of that property when a jet flies over. Watch the video on CVTV, and you will see during Larry Paulson's remarks he not only had to stop for a plane, but he mentioned a locomotive that was passing too...

[Waterbuffalo]

"..I attended the groundbreaking for the Port of Vancouver's rail access project today, and it was held inside of the Boise Cascade site. That is the first opportunity I have ever had to stand inside of the center of that property. Go look at the pictures I posted in the Groundbreaking thread, and you will see that it was held on the old concrete papermill floor; there are still makings visible on the concrete.

While I was standing there, a pair of locomotives moved into the West side of the berm trackage, and when he hit his air horn, it echoed loudly enough to make everyone jump, even though he was at least a half-mile off..."

If you have read my comments in the other threads and here, you'll see my worry and yours would be this exact one.. The horns and trains.. Now what happens when we have 100's of trains coming north, south or the west? :-)
smells a nice condominium sell off? ;-D


"The other phenomenon that was pretty obvious, was the way the sound of jets taking off from PDX echoed inside the bowl that is formed by the berm. I can only imagine what the acoustics will be like in there once they build a nice reflecting wall of glass condo windows, that focuses the sound at the waterfront, on weekends when the Air National Guard is flying. I got there early, and there were a couple of flights of F-15s that took off out of PDX, and went right over the top of us. It was so loud that you could not carry on a conversation at all."

Did have my concerns about this one as well from Commercial flights. Though i forgot about the F-15E's that Portland Air Base hosts.. They are 10x louder than the commercial flights that generally used to fly over downtown and the rest of Vancouver.

Do believe the reason why the F-15's are louder is because they have afterburners on to get them up to a heighth they need to be to defend their section of territory along the Pacific Coasts of Washington and Oregon coasts.

As much as the mayor can conplain to federal officials about the noise from PDX, this F-15E and other military jet noise is not going to change unless they move the planes or put new types or style of plains there.

"..Now that is a serious consideration to anyone who is thinking of locating down into what the Mayor referred to as "The New City" that he wants to create down there. We already have flight path intrusions by the Crossing towers, plenty of people who bitch incessantly about overflights not only from PDX, but Pearson Field as well. "

Chief: see my comments in other forums about the same thing.. PDX over flights, lighting from Jantzen Beach redevelopment and the new CRC bridge, noise from new bridge, rail and Port. (all ready wrote at length about my concern about it..).

Why the hell would any one want to live near an active Port? Think that whole place is going to be a bigger ghost town than the regular Vancouver city council meetings.



"The question now becomes, who is going to buy one of those $300,000 and up Condos, when there is an absolute assurance that they will live permanently in the noise shadow from PDX with no chance of relief? In fact, the jet noise will likely get worse as PDX continues with it's expansion plans.

You cannot imagine how loud it is until you stand right in the middle of that property when a jet flies over. Watch the video on CVTV, and you will see during Larry Paulson's remarks he not only had to stop for a plane, but he mentioned a locomotive that was passing too...

Quite impressive.. Hope every one learned the reasons why we need the CRC bridge and NOT the damn condominiums..

[Waterbuffalo]

Guess I will have to go to the Port or CVTV site to see if they have it posted. Should be a hoot to watch..

Chief, thanks for the note about it being covered by CVTV.

[Waterbuffalo]

Found the video via Port or Vancouver's website. You can find it here:

http://www.cityofvancouver.us/cvtv/cvtvindex.asp?catID=23