Preliminary Underpass Drawings (Concept)

[Chief]

I worked with Curtis Shuck and Tom Walsh at the Port of Vancouver to come up with these drawings from the West Vancouver Freight Access Project.

These are in Adobe Acrobat format, and because they were scanned off of large blueprints, the images appear to be rotated. You can use your Adobe control panel to rotate the images, then zoom in to see the details.

Again, these are concept drawings only. The final design work will be done separately by a different design team. These only show the relationships of the underpasses to the railroad project.

The reason I am putting these up to sto counter the false notions that Gramor has been putting out there of somehow putting the railroad underground. As you can see, that is hardly the case, and the new spur into the Port will have a definite impact on that site.


KEY MAP (http://www.clarkblog.org/PORT/KEYMAP.PDF?s=&showtopic=4351&view=findpost&p=28980)


SIXTH STREET PORTAL (http://www.clarkblog.org/PORT/6TH%20STREET.PDF?s=&showtopic=4351&view=findpost&p=28980)


ESTER STREET PORTAL (http://www.clarkblog.org/PORT/ESTHER%20Portal.pdf?s=&showtopic=4351&view=findpost&p=28980)


ESTER STREET PROCESSION TO THE RIVER (http://www.clarkblog.org/PORT/ESTHER%20Processionto%20Riv.pdf?s=&showtopic=4351&view=findpost&p=28980)


GRANT STREET PORTAL (http://www.clarkblog.org/PORT/GRANT.PDF?s=&showtopic=4351&view=findpost&p=28980)

[Waterbuffalo]

Thanks Chief.

Just like to add that people are going to need to rotate these pdfs to the left 90 degrees or print them out if they want to be able to read them.

[Chief]

Right you are WB, it's the nature of the drawings. If you save a copy, then open it using Adobe, you'll be able to manipulate the images.

[Waterbuffalo]

Yeah, Adobe one can make that change easily.. OR they can just print all that leaflet matter off and do the 90 degree paper turn. Either way, it works out.

[Chief]

I also put that up for you WB so you could judge the relative water levels with the depth of the excavations that will be needed to build those underpasses.

Where is the groundwater level down there, right next to the river?

Notice all of the "present grade" notes??

[DArch1]

I worked with Curtis Shuck and Tom Walsh at the Port of Vancouver to come up with these drawings from the West Vancouver Freight Access Project.

These are in Adobe Acrobat format, and because they were scanned off of large blueprints, the images appear to be rotated. You can use your Adobe control panel to rotate the images, then zoom in to see the details.

Again, these are concept drawings only. The final design work will be done separately by a different design team. These only show the relationships of the underpasses to the railroad project.

The reason I am putting these up to sto counter the false notions that Gramor has been putting out there of somehow putting the railroad underground. As you can see, that is hardly the case, and the new spur into the Port will have a definite impact on that site.


KEY MAP (http://www.clarkblog.org/PORT/KEYMAP.PDF?s=&showtopic=4351&view=findpost&p=28980)


SIXTH STREET PORTAL (http://www.clarkblog.org/PORT/6TH%20STREET.PDF?s=&showtopic=4351&view=findpost&p=28980)


ESTER STREET PORTAL (http://www.clarkblog.org/PORT/ESTHER%20Portal.pdf?s=&showtopic=4351&view=findpost&p=28980)


ESTER STREET PROCESSION TO THE RIVER (http://www.clarkblog.org/PORT/ESTHER%20Processionto%20Riv.pdf?s=&showtopic=4351&view=findpost&p=28980)


GRANT STREET PORTAL (http://www.clarkblog.org/PORT/GRANT.PDF?s=&showtopic=4351&view=findpost&p=28980)


Chief,

I am positive Gramor knows that the reail line is NOT going underground...pretty sure they've known this for the better part of a year as they have been working with the Port and BNSF on the design of the underpasses.

[Chief]

Chief,

I am positive Gramor knows that the rail line is NOT going underground...pretty sure they've known this for the better part of a year as they have been working with the Port and BNSF on the design of the underpasses.




I'm sure that they do. The problem is that they keep circulating drawings around that falsely represent what the new rail spur will look like, including the one the columbian ran on the front page on a Sunday not long ago, that clearly showed the rail line going underground.

This also gives us some idea of the relationship between the river levels and the underpass levels, along with the need for some sort of high capacity pumping system to keep those underpasses dry.

This post was not meant to educate Gramor...

cewl

[DArch1]

I'm sure that they do. The problem is that they keep circulating drawings around that falsely represent what the new rail spur will look like, including the one the columbian ran on the front page on a Sunday not long ago, that clearly showed the rail line going underground.

This also gives us some idea of the relationship between the river levels and the underpass levels, along with the need for some sort of high capacity pumping system to keep those underpasses dry.

This post was not meant to educate Gramor...

cewl

The drawing you are referencing from the Columbian was created by ZGF with the City of Vancouver as part of the VCCV Subarea plan and has no relationship whatsoever to Gramor's efforts. Of all the current drawings the columbian had to use...they chose that one.

I don't want to give up too many facts about the situation...kinda ruins the entertainment value of this site.

BTW...you have REALLY old drawings from the Port...and don't worry, I'm sure Gramor found your post more amusing than educational.

Cheers

[Chief]

Those drawings are from the West Vancouver Freight Access Project, courtesy of the Port of Vancouver. They happen to be from the current set of drawings that they will be using when Phase 3 of the Project kicks off.

You might want to go back to the beginning, and re-read the disclaimer I put up. These drawings give a better indication of what the underpasses will look like than any other source here in town has to date.

Again, I am not prepared to trash the Port of Vancouver or the BNSF railroad for being dirty bastards for not readily coughing up the cash that is needed to float the first phase of development at the former Boise Cascade site. I don't know where you think the City is going to get the money they have told you they are trying so desperately to find, but trust me, watching that show will be a lot more entertaining and certainly worth watching.

And paying for the underpasses is just the first phase. You never have admitted what you know about what the development itself is going to cost the City. Someone has to pay for the streets, sidewalks, park benches, fire hydrants, water mains, electric service, etc, etc, etc...

[DArch1]

Those drawings are from the West Vancouver Freight Access Project, courtesy of the Port of Vancouver. They happen to be from the current set of drawings that they will be using when Phase 3 of the Project kicks off.

You might want to go back to the beginning, and re-read the disclaimer I put up. These drawings give a better indication of what the underpasses will look like than any other source here in town has to date.

Again, I am not prepared to trash the Port of Vancouver or the BNSF railroad for being dirty bastards for not readily coughing up the cash that is needed to float the first phase of development at the former Boise Cascade site. I don't know where you think the City is going to get the money they have told you they are trying so desperately to find, but trust me, watching that show will be a lot more entertaining and certainly worth watching.

And paying for the underpasses is just the first phase. You never have admitted what you know about what the development itself is going to cost the City. Someone has to pay for the streets, sidewalks, park benches, fire hydrants, water mains, electric service, etc, etc, etc...

I hate to rain on your parade...OK that's lie...the drawings are dated June 2007...again they are NOT the most accurate or current.

No one is trashing the Port or BNSF here...I happen to like choo choo trains, have since a young lad. BNSF and the Port are as much a force on the project as the Columbia River.

So I got this idea for you and Buff...open up a bar on the waterfront RIGHT next to the tracks...fill the wall with cocktail shakers and when the trains roll by TADA!!! martini's for everyone. You can call it "Shakers", where every hour is happy hour, just keep those trains rollin baby.

[Chief]

I hate to rain on your parade...OK that's lie...the drawings are dated June 2007...again they are NOT the most accurate or current.

No one is trashing the Port or BNSF here...I happen to like choo choo trains, have since a young lad. BNSF and the Port are as much a force on the project as the Columbia River.

So I got this idea for you and Buff...open up a bar on the waterfront RIGHT next to the tracks...fill the wall with cocktail shakers and when the trains roll by TADA!!! martini's for everyone. You can call it "Shakers", where every hour is happy hour, just keep those trains rollin baby.

Those trains provide a significant enough portion of the local economy, along with what few jobs we actually have on this side of the river that actually accomplish something. Do you have any idea how much of the Nation's stuttering economy comes and goes on those trains?

Sure sounds like you're denigrating the railroad to me; you certainly aren't much of a fan of the railroad or Clarkblog for that matter, are you?

[Chief]

I'll bet you subscribe to the columbian too...

ddrrii

[DArch1]

AWWW Chief don't get yur panties in a twist now. I love the rail and true a vital part PART of our economy.

Lets get back on topic...Gramor is aware that the rail is above grade and you are using mis information and old drawings to make your points...and you appear to not have much of a sense of humor.

[DArch1]

OMG...The dreaded "you subscribe to the Columbian" retort...

[Chief]

yah...I have no sense of humor...

ddrrii

[Waterbuffalo]

On this subject Darch1, you might say Chief and I have a lot of emotional and political capital tied to it. So your going to get the negative feedback loop that both him and I present at times because of the level of repeated ignorance that him and I have to deal with.

I'm willing to put my cards away and look the bigger picture on this site and what could be, though I do reserve my right at any time to pull out my cards and play my hand if I see games being played.

The port is doing a nice job keeping us informed and interested in the topic.. I loved these pdfs and want to get a chance to go look over the area so I can tear up my cards and move on.. There is so much other things I'd like to be doing my time than burning the midnight oil and searching the web for more information on this project or gathering data to learn more.


Though I did love your "shakers" comment. Though I doubt I'll waste my time opening a martini bar in the area as it would be too expensive to rent space in that area once this site is finished developing.

[DArch1]

yah...I have no sense of humor...

ddrrii

Yeah...you're Captain Sunshine alright.

[Chief]

Though I did love your "shakers" comment. Though I doubt I'll waste my time opening a martini bar in the area as it would be too expensive to rent space in that area once this site is finished developing.


Not to mention how difficult it's going to be to keep the windows from vibrating from those 150.000 rail cars going in and out of there every day.

WB, if you want to get a feel for the scope of the work, go down to the Quay's parking lot, where it abuts against the old Boise site, and you can see through the fence how the work is going on the bypass project.

Keep in mind that part of the earthworks you'll see is for a temporary bypass siding so the crews can build the new berm and do the required work on the old one. That construction phase hasn't actually started yet, but some preliminary work is going on at the East end of the site.

[Chief]

Yeah...you're Captain Sunshine alright.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v645/SeniorChieftain/lightenupfrancis.jpg

That's Chief Sunshine to you Arch...

;)

[Waterbuffalo]

<deletes comments...>

You two have fun.. :-) Other threads are calling me..

[DArch1]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v645/SeniorChieftain/lightenupfrancis.jpg

That's Chief Sunshine to you Arch...

;)

"Chief Sunshine" it is...need to change your handle.

[Waterbuffalo]

Darch, Do you have some thing substantive to add to this thread?

Waterbuffalo looks to Clarkblog's Humor section for Darch1's one liners...

Added: To Chief: I just printed the PDF's a couple of days ago. Darn things printed in 1/10 page size. Need to stretch them out so I can see some of the graphics..

Think my printer has a degree in Minutia printing...

[Chief]

yah, it would be tough to print these out, unless you can set the printer to allow more than one page, and set it to "Landscape".

Be sure to save a copy of the drawing you are trying to manipulate, then open it again with your Adobe Acrobat software.

[Waterbuffalo]

Yeah, I get a basic idea from looking at what I had. I'll print them later when I get a second.

Off to do some more giggling. (google..)

[DArch1]

[QUOTE=Waterbuffalo;9672]Darch, Do you have some thing substantive to add to this thread?

Waterbuffalo looks to Clarkblog's Humor section for Darch1's one liners...

Aside from correcting the erroneous comments and conjecture that started this thread...probably not.

Unfortunately Buff, I'm not in a position where I can give out much more info than I already have...we could play a game of
"warmer/colder" if that would help...right now you and Chief Sunshine are hangin' around 34 degrees fahrenheit. I gave you a 2 degree bump up from freezing because you actually know where the subject in question is located.

[Waterbuffalo]

So Darch1, so you said this thread started with conjecture and erroneous comments? Ok, start the correcting?

If there is one thing I personally detest is ignorance when it flies in the face of known or shown facts. Chief has recently challenged my theories on flood plain levels and provided information on this thread to the contrary to my fema map searches.

Can you please tell me where I'm wrong?

It is not too find where Gramor is when its only a few blocks southwest of Esther Short Park with Google Maps.

[DArch1]

So Darch1, so you said this thread started with conjecture and erroneous comments? Ok, start the correcting?

The correcting has been completed. Chief Sunshine started this thread by stating that Gramor was trying to somehow show that the rail line was below grade. Sunshine then used the rendering in the Columbian as the example proving his statement. I then corrected him that the image he was referring to was...YAWN...go back and read the posts!!!

BTW is it coincidence that once I mention the VCCV Sub-Area plan in this thread that; what do you think appears the next day on Clarkblog??????? A thread started by Chief "google" Sunshine about the VCCV Sub-area plan and what it lines out for the waterfront. It was in the "HOLY COW...Look what they are doing down there" thread...it's probably just coincidence.

[DArch1]

So Darch1, so you said this thread started with conjecture and erroneous comments? Ok, start the correcting?

If there is one thing I personally detest is ignorance when it flies in the face of known or shown facts. Chief has recently challenged my theories on flood plain levels and provided information on this thread to the contrary to my fema map searches.

Can you please tell me where I'm wrong?

It is not too find where Gramor is when its only a few blocks southwest of Esther Short Park with Google Maps.

Yes, the site is near a river...there is the chance of flooding. So with the scope for the Boise Cascade site outlined in the VCCV SAP there obviously is a need for parking, especially given the density goals. It is probably unrealistic to build all the parking required above grade, so some (a lot) will have to go below. Given the site is on 18-20 feet of fill, it makes some sense to build two levels below grade (Seattle bath tub parking garage along the waterfront); tying into the undisturbed soil. Then it also makes sense to tie some of the structures together below grade ala Brewery Blocks in PDX…so, now what to do with all that soil from the below grade parking structures. One idea could be to raise the level of the waterfront site a couple of feet…looking at the flood maps, that’s all it would take to keep it in the clear.

…as a thought.

[DArch1]

If there is one thing I personally detest is ignorance when it flies in the face of known or shown facts. Chief has recently challenged my theories on flood plain levels and provided information on this thread to the contrary to my fema map searches.

Can you please tell me where I'm wrong?

First mention of flood plain on this thread...what do you expect. Are you saying I am ignorant?

[Chief]

First mention of flood plain on this thread...what do you expect. Are you saying I am ignorant?

I'll tackle that, if you don't mind...

I don't think you're ignorant, but I do believe you have an agenda. I would personally like to see you play some role other than "Sultan of Snark" here at Clarkblog, instead of focusing exclusively on being what I feel is confrontational about what I think about the Boise Cascade site.

I realize that you wish to remain anonymous, but it's pretty obvious by your remarks that you have an interest in the project and are not happy that us Civilians aren't falling into line to support this monstrosity at Boise.

Frankly, I've had big problems with it from the moment it was announced, because of the outlandish cost just to get access to a site where the City wants 2700 (or more) condominiums built, and using my money to do it. The City is talking about the tax revnue this will bring in, knowing full well that they have already approved the whole site for eventual 10-year tax exemptions.

The whole process has been shrouded in secrecy for a year or more, and the City's development office is so cagy with data, they carry their presentations around on a thumbdrive, and hand out as few paper copies as possible. The schemes that I hear being proposed to pay for this are outlandish, and the ones that require a vote are DOA as every politician in town damn well knows.

The money for this simply isn't available, not in the quantities that the Developer needs, or the timeframes. Even the intergovernmental agreement that the Port is being asked to essentially co-sign on Boise is a drop in the bucket, and only brings in $1 Million a year.

So let's start getting real on this, and try answering some of the questions we ask, instead of making insulting remarks just because we dare ask them.

cewl

[DArch1]

So let's start getting real on this, and try answering some of the questions we ask, instead of making insulting remarks just because we dare ask them.

cewl

1. This thread was started by you pointing out that Gramor was trying to pass mis-information about the placement of the rail line...I corrected your reference of the Columbian rendering as proof of this.

2. I pointed you in the direction of the VCCV Sub Area Plan, which is where the drawing posted in the columbian came from.

3. I gave you a fabulous money making idea for a martini bar...ok not so fabulous, but entertaining nonetheless.

4. Post 28 of this thread offers a suggestion on the flooding issues...Post 28 pre-dates your nastygram to me stating I offer no suggestons. You have not so much as asked me questions as attacked my intelligence. Basically anyone that does not agree with you and Buff are stupid and I'll informed...(read Buff's posts)

5. Your post; "That's Chief Sunshine to you Arch" gave me the license to call you Cheif Sunshine...If it is offensive to you I will stop...just let me know.

6. I have treated everyone here with the same amount of respect that this site has afforded me and others that might not totally agree with your positions.

7. Public debate on these issues are good for everyone and will make Vancouver better. ClarkBlog could be such a place for this to happen...

8. I do appreciate the the efforts you and your administrators go thru to keep this site going...not easy. Thank you.