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View Full Version : City of Vancouver might increase taxes to avert cuts in police, fire


Chief
05-12-2008, 04:49 PM
http://www.columbian.com/news/localNews/2008/05/05122008_City-of-Vancouver-might-increase-taxes-to-avert-cuts-in-police-fire.cfm

Monday, May 12, 2008
By Jeffrey Mize, Columbian Staff Writer

Vancouver might jack up taxes on sewer, water and drainage to prevent major spending cuts in police and fire.

The city currently tacks a 16 percent tax onto each of those services when it sends out utility bills. Increasing each to 20 percent would net an estimated $2.4 million annually.

Raising those utility taxes is one of the few options open to the city that do not require voter approval. Vancouver’s taxes on electricity, natural gas and telephone already are at 6 percent and cannot be raised without a public vote.

City council members heard a gloomy report Friday on what cuts police and fire could make because of a projected $6 million budget deficit for the 2009-10 biennium.

Police Chief Cliff Cook rattled off a list of cuts he would make, gutting many specialty programs and concentrating officers on patrol, the department’s core mission to respond to emergencies.

Cook said he would cut 11 officer positions —eight that are currently vacant plus three officers who would be laid off —along with 13 civilian employees, of which only three spots are vacant.

Some of the cuts outlined by Cook include:

— No school resource officer for the Vancouver Public Schools or participation in a metro gang task force.

— Reassign all three officers assigned now to the Career Criminal Apprehension Team.

— Reassign two of the four officers on neighborhood response teams.

— Reassign three of seven detectives working on property crimes.

— Reassign two of three drug task force detectives.

Fire Chief Don Bivins said his department would cancel plans to build Fire Station 810 at Northeast 164th Avenue and 15th Street, near the southwest corner of Pacific Community Park.

The city already has budgeted to build the station and hire 13 firefighters in 2009. If the department is hit with a budget cut, it would not hire those firefighters and shift the construction dollars to relocate and rebuild Station 86 at 400 E. 37th St.

In 2010, the fire department would eliminate the medical response vehicle assigned to Station 89, 17408 S.E. 15th St., and lay off six paramedics, Bivins said.

Council members didn’t seem willing to make those cuts in public safety.

“I think the basic reason for having a city is public safety,” Councilwoman Pat Jollota said.

Vancouver has struggled to balance its budget for most of this decade. It has approved a series of fee increases and bumped up the sales tax to the maximum 1 percent (the full sales tax is 8.2 percent in Vancouver) in August 2005.

But it also has made significant cuts to parks and other programs, as a way to shield police and fire from the budget ax.

Councilwoman Jeanne Harris said the council needs to consider all options, including utility, motor vehicle and business and occupation taxes.

“Don’t paint me as someone who loves taxes,” Harris said. “But I also believe we have a responsibility to collect a fair price for the services provided.”

In 2006, the council appeared ready to reimpose a city business and occupation tax, which had been phased out over a 10-year period beginning in the early 1990s. But the council’s political will quickly faded in the face of a concerted lobbying effort by the business community.

**SCHNIPP**

First, let us allow the possibility that this is nothing more than a tabloid headline from the columbian, to stir up trouble and sell newspapers. I wouldn't put it past Jeff Mize to have manufactured this out of whole cloth, based on a rumor.

That said...

Here we go again. It seems that every few years we get these threats out of City Council to cut Police and Fire protection unless such and so happens.

The last time we got this threat was when the City was going hot and heavy after the B&O tax, which Identity Clark County screamed bloody murder about, and the City ultimately backed down from. This may be another run at that, or an increase in the per-head tax.

But as I have long said, the City's twin Number One priorities are Police and Fire protection, and everything else comes after that. The City stands zero chance of justifying massive tax cuts or reductions in either Police or Fire when they are pursuing tax-increment financing to come up with $12.5 Million for the former Boise Cascade site development. That $2 Million or more a year that the City spends on the Hilton would go a long way toward paying for Police and Fire too, but that rant belongs to someone else, and I don't even need to go there...

This debate is going to give the usual suspects ample fodder to beat on the podium with their shoes, too. I suspect we can look forward to yet another live tirade from Larry Patella at a City Council meeting in the near future, and frankly, I hope Larry does it right this time, and has the stones to get belligerent enough to get himself arrested this time.

The columbian is boycotting Kommander Kneekap's outrageous letters to the editor these days, (primarily because they violated their own letters rules policy earlier this year over another of Patella's tedious sermons...) so Larry is desperate for a public forum to shout from. Since CVTV covers Council meetings, all of Larry's close friends can ooh and ahh over him live. I'm frankly amazed that he never shows up to the Port of Vancouver meetings since CVTV covers them too...but I'd hate to give him any ideas.

But the biggest question of them all in this Boys and Girls, as always, is What Will Pat Campbell Do about this?? How can the City have this kind of problem at all, since Pat Campbell successfully attached himself to Dan Tonkovich's old, well chewed, public teat??

::)

Chief
05-12-2008, 04:53 PM
Here is the Agenda item for tonight's Council meeting...

http://www.cityofvancouver.us/councilmeetings.asp?menuid=10462&submenuID=10474&itemID=53168

4. Spring 2008 Supplemental Budget

(Staff Report 078-08 --- attached on grey paper.)

AN ORDINANCE relating to the 2007-2008 Biennial Budget and making various appropriations in various funds; creating new funds to implement the budget, and declaring an emergency.



Summary:

Each year, certain budget adjustments must be made to reflect changes in revenues and expenses that occurred after the date the budget was adopted by City Council. These adjustments can be generally categorized into several areas:

*
Corrections or administrative updates to the adopted 2007-2008 budget.
*
Activities and expenditures associated with new revenues.
*
Other unanticipated requirements.



Budget adjustments are recommended for the City’s various funds as detailed in Attachment A of the ordinance. Overall, the recommended adjustments for the City’s Operating and Capital funds included in the Spring 2008 Supplemental Budget have an impact of $19.8 million on City’s expenditure appropriation. Approximately $3.2 million of that amount relates to expenditure changes in the General, Street and Fire funds. Major adjustments in the City’s General, Street, and Fire funds.

Action Requested:

Approve ordinance on first reading, setting date of second reading and public hearing for May 19, 2008. (Natasha Ramras, Budget and Planning Manager, 619-1091)

karma
05-13-2008, 07:59 AM
All one can say is Robbing Peter to Pay Paul and when the new state rules come down and the City has to abide by them they again will be raising them to pay for what this fund is really needed for. I think they should give back their pay raises to start and stop the spending of useless programs and stop selling out the city so cheap?????????

Waterbuffalo
05-14-2008, 01:28 AM
All one can say is Robbing Peter to Pay Paul and when the new state rules come down and the City has to abide by them they again will be raising them to pay for what this fund is really needed for. I think they should give back their pay raises to start and stop the spending of useless programs and stop selling out the city so cheap?????????

Karma, Do you have any vision or ways on how the City could afford to take take of these issues?

Chief
05-14-2008, 06:46 AM
Karma, Do you have any vision or ways on how the City could afford to take take of these issues?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v645/SeniorChieftain/BLOG%20IMAGES/flyingpigs.jpg

mrgrn

karma
05-14-2008, 08:49 AM
Buff, you should be asking your City Manager what is up down there??? I'm not walking in his shoes and for him and the Councial to give themselves a pay raise in times like this shows they don't care about the oath they took???????

Chief, pigs do fly????????? Plus the Pope said you can believe in extraterrestrial!!!

Waterbuffalo
05-14-2008, 09:50 AM
I think I don't need to ask Karma. Its all ready apparent to any whom listens even to the faint fumblings and rumblings from Captain Sonar. If you don't know whom he is, you can get said information from the Head of Kite Flying information..

Now back to Political consciousness instead of continuing to go back and forth on trivial and subjective arguing..

So now we have to raise taxes again for the upteenth time.. Wasn't it former governor Gary Locke who was one of the first Democrats in my generation as governor to propose prioritization of the most important needs, wants and desires of that level of government? No, I don't think you can pay rob peter to pay paul for things but where is this prioritization?

Do we need to close or mothball0 one or both of the City's recreation centers? Do we cut back off off and staff perks at the City level? Do we change maintenance levels of our streets so that not every four or five years a street gets paved? (What ever the number is. Make the streets wear out longer, even if they have bumps.)

Renegotiate the Fire and Police services contracts telling the guys there simply isn't money?

I'd say every thing should be on the table fellas.. If the City Manager and mayor has to come before the citizens to make the case that we need X, Y or Z things for the these services, I don't think you would hear the a peep out of anyone if all was done to avert such as what is happening now.

Tim, Larry, Pat, Royce, Pat, Jeanne Harris and Stewart, all our sitting members of council, the city manager said about six months ago that he was looking next year for some way to pay for these services. I remember, because I was watching the CVTV broadcast when he asked. So where are the creative ideas on how to pay for these services before hiking fees on services?

Pat you elected over Dan Tonkovich to provide new and bold leadership, yet I hear near a peep out of you. I have given you a six month pass since November of 2007 when you were elected.. Where is this bold leadership?

It was nice to hear about the Grand Mounds Casino and water park you went to two weeks ago. But where is your leadership when we're facing cuts in a serious core service of Fire protection and Police services, taking cops off needed details in our schools (for the upteenth time) to provide core services of patrol officers?

Every thing is on the table boys and girls, police and fire unions please step up. I am willing to support a tax increase if every one comes to the table willing to negotiate and find some way to offset loss of officers or redirection of hours from needed core services because every time there is an budget deficit, we need to cut.

I remember in going to Hudson's Bay High School in the 1990's and having this SAME exact issue happen. Its now almost 10 to 20 years later. Some thing tells me there needs to be some changes in leadership, because it seems this stuff happens and happens and happens.. When is it going to change?

Chief
05-14-2008, 12:40 PM
We might try consolidating duplicated services and overlapping fire districts too. The management in the fire service is pretty top heavy. Walk into a fire station some time and count all the white shirts with collar devices on them...

Again, Fire and Police are supposed to be the top two priorities for the City, but they are also dealing with powerful labor unions at the same time, so tread lightly on this before you beat up City Council over something they hardly control.

What they do control is the issue, and what they waste money on is the meat of it. There is always money to be found for another "Do" at the Hilton, but at the cost of retiring a rescue vehicle and two Cops...

karma
05-14-2008, 01:00 PM
So Chief, you want to blame the 'Unions' for the problems and not the Mayor or the Council??

Waterbuffalo
05-14-2008, 02:41 PM
I think Chief makes a huge and valid point here. My point was NOT to piss off the two unions but to find a solution to a problem that seems to continue unabated for near 20 years since I originally moved here in 1987 as a kid and heard the stories.

I'm trying to see if both the CM and unions came come together and find a permanent solution to this problem without having to go digging for dollars from different priorities instead of trying to come up with some thing that will work long term.

Raising taxes has been done over and over again but has it resulted in the same or better level of services? Has it increased more people on the beat and Fire houses?

What I am looking for here Chief isn't to piss off any one but to see if there is a way to fix this continual problem of cut and pasting that has happened.

Now since I have been talking about this and probably made some major people in this community ticked off, I am willing to discuss and be part of a solution.. NOT, stand in the way or whine/complain/say no to all new taxes.

Since I don't know what has been tried, (other than what is toutamount to the obvious) is in current negotiations and possible solutions that are on the tip of the City Manager's office and the Mayor, which most of the average Joe citizen is not going to have access to at the current moment during a negotiation/bargaining session.

So now I have to think, what could be a solution to this problem? Chief, I loved your tax the business idea where each Business is hit with yearly fee for CRESA. (as an idea only... There has to be 100 wonderful walking ideas in our citizen's heads than just this..)

How about some thing like this to help stabilize the funding?

Chief
05-14-2008, 05:50 PM
Like I said, the last time we went through this was when the City wanted to raise the B&O, and ended up settling for the $50 per head tax. I read somewhere that revenues from that tax are significantly lower than what was projected, so Identity Clark County isn't doing the City any favors either, since it was ICC who pushed that $50 tax in the first place.

The City gets money for Police and Fire from all of those annexations they do WB, so it's not a matter of costs being completely out of control as is being alleged here. The City Council has a selective memory when it comes to where they spend money, and maybe to cost of some of the Downtown redevelopment decisions they have made lately are coming home to roost.

They did just agree to spend $7 Million on design fees for the Boise underpasses, just last month...

ddrrii

Waterbuffalo
05-15-2008, 03:20 AM
Well may be a re-alignment and overlapping of firehouses to cover areas of each other might needed. Wonderful idea, each firehouse covers a portion of the other, so that basic fire protection is covered through out the city.

Was there not just a hike in business fees for fire inspections?

Now to Law Enforcement, is there a way to pin point most of the service regions or ares where most of the calls are generated? This seems to be an effective way of pinpointing officers into areas that most need it.

Also placing more emphasis on Neighborhood Watch and block programs in areas that are having higher than average E911 law enforcement calls? I was reading in one of the local medias that this is being tried in the Hough and Airport Heights NA.. I would like to see how this will be working three or six months out and see if it will help to cut down on the need for both of these services in those areas and could be rolled more out into the city.

Waterbuffalo
05-15-2008, 03:26 AM
Another thought just crossed my mind that might be an idea. Since I don't know what the Sherriff, City of Vancouver Police and Fire do, why not suggest myself and others ask to talk to Kim Knapp, PIO for a ride along or talk to the fire chiefs and personnel about what is going on.

I'm all for having an active and knowledgeable citizenry. So how about it folks, have you contacted or asked more of your City Employees what they do and how they do it?

I think they would love to give people 15 minutes of their time explaining what they do and what is going on in their departments.

This would be an effective way to determine what is going on and if its a wise use of resources or need for a tax increase if I and the rest talk to them and find out more about what they do.