Downtown groans with retail blues

[Chief]

http://columbian.com/news/localNews/2008/03/03052008_Downtown-groans-with-retail-blues.cfm

Wednesday, March 05, 2008
By JEFFREY MIZE, Columbian staff writer

For all its crowing about downtown Vancouver’s revival, the city has received a poignant reminder of the area’s retail shortcomings.

The city, with 8,500 square feet of prime space available for rent along the west side of Esther Short Park, went looking for a specialty grocery store or a chic restaurant to fill the Vancouver Farmers Market’s former indoor site.

Instead, it ended up with an athletic club and, most likely, a bank.

“We made cold calls to grocery stores,” Tim Haldeman, Vancouver’s director of facilities, risk and property, told the city council Monday. “They just weren’t interested. There just aren’t enough residential units to open up a grocery store.”

Ditto for restaurants.

**SCHNIPP**

You have to go read the whole story, but it's apparent that someone at the columbian realized that it's all but a ghost town in Downtown Vancouver...

This story is mainly about the machinations the City is going through to try and get a tenant into the site of the indoor farmer's market that failed and closed last year. We were discussing the Council Agenda yesterday, and although the staff report says that the City will pay for "improvements" they didn't mention that the floor was specially poured in the first place so that the previous tenant could hose out the stalls...

So let's invest millions of dollars at the Boise Cascade site so we can just create some congestion where none exists right now.

The City is still continuing to act like the East side doesn't even exist, and they continue to try to find ways to spend money down there.

I was interested to see that Pat Campbell (and Jeanne Stewart) voted "No" on this, because his stated reason was really curious...

Campbell said the city has had some crime problems nearby, including a murder, and could be liable if there were a tragedy.

Huh?? Say what Pat? What has that got to do with the subject at hand?? You were being asked to revamp yet another mistake by a previous council, by re-doing the floor so that a normal tenant could occupy that space. You're opposed to the plan Staff presented because of one unsolved murder from a couple of years ago??

Where's your detailed strategery for solving that crime Pat?? Where will you cut the budget to pay for it Pat, by letting the indoor farmer's market continue to stand vacant??

Of course Pat and Jeanne Stewart didn't present any different plan of their own, they were just opposed to this one.

Typical.

There's no doubt that this is a stinking mess, but something has to be done to try and salvage something down there. Yes, it would be nice if the City had never gotten into the in the first place, but beating that dead horse is a waste of time at this point...

8)

[karma]

I'll read it later as they are relying on Westfield to be their retail after it was all shoved out there!! Did you know there have some really nice folks out there?? Can you tell where my interview was this AM?? ; )

[Chief]

No karma, they are talking about building a new "gateway" to the City over there by the new Fred Meyer. Never mend that the City Limit on that end of twon is nine miles East...

I'm sorry that the businesses in Downtwon Vancouver are dying on the vine, but I support the businesses that are near my house, and I feel absolutely no obligation to cough up even more tax money, to be put toward propping up private businesses in Downtown.

The City created Ester Short Commons so that it would provide the illusion that people actually chose to live in Downtown. They moved the Farmer's Market over there hoping to stimulate that, and built the indoor farmer's market on the "Build it and they will come" principal. The truth is, that project was doomed from the start, and never should have been there in the first place, but that seems to have slipped by the wayside here someplace.

The majority of the events that the Hilton hosts are sponsored by the City, or some other Governmental agency, and it isn't a particularly good place to do much of anything other than spend the night if you absolutely had to.

How many more failed development projects will we end up funding before City Council catches a clue??

It's stories like this that give me pause every time I hear Tim Leavitt tell me what a good investment Boise Cascade will be for the City. As the prospective next Mayor of vancouver, it's very troubling to hear Tim Leavitt making the same downtown re-development noises as Royce Pollard does...

They haven't been able to come up with a single cost effective project downtown yet, why do people think they will in the future??

Lincoln, Shumway, Arnada, Rose Village and other neighborhoods in the Downtown area need to consider all of this carefully, because if and when the bill comes due on the so-called "second wave" of Downtown redevelopment, you will all be stunned at the bill.

Hazel Dell, Felida and Salmon Creek need to wake up and smell the coffee, because if the City of Vancouver annexes you, it will be to use your tax dollars and the borrowing power of your homes to help pay for all of the goodies that they want in Downtown Vancouver.

[Chief]

Bumping to the top...

This discussion died off a few days ago, but Tim Leavitt revived it at his blog today. I've re-read what I said in the first place and I stand by every word; I think I'm being fair and realistic here...

And I welcome all comments on this. It's a conversation that needs to continue.

[mooney]

I know that this posting is going to get some knots in some of your shorts but a man got to do what a man's got to do.

Isn't the tone of this topic and the criticisms leveled pretty much what Larry Patella has been saying.

Perhaps as it relates to downtown development that some of you have more in common with some of the issues that Patella raises than you would care to admit to?

Now take it easy on me. I am by nature very sensitive.

[Chief]

And as always mooney, he is most welcome to come over here and make them.

;)

[Waterbuffalo]

Mooney: its never stopped Karma or I from disagreeing vehemently with Chief on many different topics.. But heck, we always find some way to live with what posted here.

Some of Chief's topics are similar to what Larry brings up but its the factuality of what he posts that keeps me here at Clarkblog? I don't want long diatribe emails that just carbon copies matter from some rough and dense roughshod without the facts to back it up.

No, Chief is not always pleasant on political matters. Don't think any of us are..

But I do think an honest, open discussion with NEW and different facts that all of bring to the discussion is some thing that not many places in Clark County does.

So how do you feel on the subject Mooney? Honestly and openly...

The difference between Larry and Chief is such a huge and wide dearth its not even questionable IMO. If you read the archives that are posted here, you'll see the differences in a huge way...

[mooney]

WB
Sometimes I have to think about things for a few days while I collect my thoughts about your posting. It seems that some of the more controversial issues relative to downtown redevelopment in the last year or so are:

Hilton Hotel
IDD levy
Monterey Hotel
The police station sale to Kassab
The empty parking garages
Ten year tax deferments
Heritage project
The indoor farmers market
The new library
The 14 million dollar bridge

There are others but I will leave those for other discussions. It seems that most of the postings from many of the regulars to this site are critical of these projects. I know Chief is an ardent supporter of the Port of Vancouver. I too support the port to the extent that I think it has a vital place in the development of our area. I was opposed the the IDD levy for 2 reasons. First, I thought that it was poorly implemented and secondly that the amount of the levy was excessive. I retired in 1982 and in the last 26 years my retirement income has diminished to about 50% in buying power. I take it very personally when someone wants to dig into my pockets. Now a night out for the wife and I is a twofer at IHOP.

Larry Patella has also been critical of many of the mentioned issues. While one may criticize his methods. Is he not correct in his criticism of many of these issues? When one looks at the Washington State Public Disclosure website and look at the contributions from many connected to these issues and see where the campaign contributions come from and who they went to it is hard not to think that the local system stinks.

OK there it is. Take a shot at me but remember I'm a lover not a fighter.

[Waterbuffalo]

I think Chiefs and my concerns are related to the tactics that are employed by the said individuals that flow around Larry Patella.

Its not the subject matter that gets our hackles in a bind. Its their activity and actions to it and basically just being a punch-on-point, blow-by-blow responding to a narrow commentary from a newspaper?

Coming screaming, shouting and virulent to many community meetings that are really not of their business and stiring up passions with libel, slander and many other commentary I won't dignify.

I have attended several community meetings in the City of Vancouver since an event Chief and I attended that was political in nature about a month ago left my head shaking in utter silence about how ignorant, stupid and honestly, waste of space these people were.

Now most of these instigators people DO reside in my 17th state legislative district. I cannot comment on the other four legislative districts but if you attend Cascade Park community forums, you'll get a taste of what these people do and why I can't be within 20 feet of it.

Some of Larry's cohorts do have good points, ideas and thoughts, but its overshadowed by an email list that is frankly insulting. (deleted long commentary here..)

And when I have approached them, I get an air of snobbishness from them that they simply won't listen to reason that their ideas or commentary could actually be wrong. They continue to bring up the same tired subjects over and over again when they've been shown over and over again why they won't work.. Not that they cannot work but utterly won't work for some reason or another beyond a political problems they continue to utter.

Getting off the "Larry Subject" and moving to the list.

One Comment, I think I have similar feelings about those projects you have listed. But a lot of those projects were hashed out here and dealt with a year or more ago. There is a huge list of newer and more costly items than what was brought for to the community over the past year.

Columbia River Crossing and its financing. Is it fair or not?

Hilton and its continual issues,

Gramor, its financing, govt. subsidy to do basic planning and where is the money going to come from to get its basic utility and underground structure done?

City of Vancouver transportation and planning (More than just the sidewalks, pothole protection plan, and intersection improvements.)

The Gangs and Task Force, continual funding issues related to spending and why this or that can't be funded.

Mill Plain and its continued clogging. Why is the City continuing to just downgrade the road with its concurrency modeling instead of fixing the problem?

Central Vancouver's continued problems.. Though I will point out that they're working on and developing a plan to correct this.

Lincoln NA's or Kiggin's Bowl LRT station.

Light Rail running in Downtown.

I'd say this is a short list but its a starting point of the Downtown Issues and other issues in our community. Most of this is just off the top of my head..