Downtown's Second Wave

[tefen]

http://www.thecolumbianb2b.com/novdec2007/downtown-vancouver.cfm

This is an excellent article which discusses a number of projects in the works.

While city officials and developers are excited about the new round of capital investment, at least two issues could slow the revitalization – the cost of street realignment and downtown’s still weak residential component. Without more residents, experts say, downtown can not be the 24-hour-a-day activity hub necessary to support retail and restaurant businesses. Those businesses in turn create the ambiance and livability so attractive to an urban lifestyle.

Who knew it was hiding away on the little-read columbian b2b site.


Edited to add:

There's also a question and answer section with downtown business owners. http://www.thecolumbianb2b.com/novdec2007/leadingtopic.cfm

I love this quote which goes contrary to a lot of people's opinions of downtown:

How would you describe the downtown retail climate?

RUPERT: “Crickets chirping. We need more retailers. We need more reasons for folks to come down during the day. We’ve got lots of nightlife.”

[Waterbuffalo]

Two things they need to get fixed, one of them is fix the streets through the down-by-the river from I-5 all the way to the port so they don't look like they're still in World War 2 shape? If you walk around Kiggons or any other place around downtown, the sidewalks and roads are terrible. So they got this right in the columbianbusiness2business section.

The other is to some how get the bus station and any reminants of it cleaned up. Look at all the old buildings that run along seventh street? That's going to be one of the next big redevelopments that many in City Hall have been pushing for sooo many years..

And they have to deal with a lot of noise issues that have been discussed at length and by the Condo/hotel stayers since the Hilton Hotel Vancouver opened.

[Chief]

I still think we'd be money ahead if we paid for those retailers to move to Cascade Park....where the people are...

[Waterbuffalo]

<..Wink..>

Isn't that what we have Columbia Tech Center for?

[Waterbuffalo]

<bumps..>

If the City's councilors and staff think there is a viable downtown Day time
or at night, they have got to be kidding themselves. I wouldn't live there or come down there unless I was put into a straight jacket and hauled past there to the Old Memorial Hospital building.

Who wants to live near a new I-5 bridge and ITS construction over 5 to 10 years, BNSF horns all day and night, an two ACTIVE ports along the waterfront right next door ( the west side of Hayden Island is being proposed to become an active water port?) The airplanes that fly ove into PDX, the hobos that still continue to be down there drunk and roudy amongst a whole long list of things.

Yes, there is some hope with the Hilton and redevelopment, along with 5 to 6 new office buildings along with K-P and Gramor but you still have areas north of that are still gravel parking lots, and a culture downtown and uses related to that are hugely related to office only developments.

Name me one place that is outside of 7th street area or the downtown south core that is seeing any development? Look along 13 street, Main along 8th? Mill Plain and 15 th street? Look around, do you see any mixed zones in those areas that are favoring to create a downtown that has mixed uses 24-7?

There has been some movement along areas near Mill Plain and Kauffman Avenue and the train tracks to clean up that area and bring more vitality to it? But there are still sections that don't have a master plan, overlay or movements that people will want to live downtown or come downtown to do any thing.

Yes, there is the Saturday market that happens 2 short days a week and summer music festival. But where is the rest of it?

Sorry but I'll keep my hat and hell bell over here in Orchards right next to Chief, his wife and their brood of money wrench artists... (Ferrets and cats..)

Also add to the East side area of Central Park. How many want to walk that area or want to come down to Officer's Row?

The whole area smacks of elitism to me.

[Chief]

You don't ned to sugar coat it for us here WB...you can tell us what you really think...

:D

I suggest you take an aspirin before you read Tom Koenninger's column today, as he is renewing the call for a "cap" over I-5...

[tefen]

You forgot the two Ellie Kassab developments at Mill Plain and C as well as the Al Angelo project at the old Denny's site.

As far as pushing development out of downtown? I think the idea behind the main street alignment for lightrail was to drag development northward, like a brush through wet paint.

Personally, I'm interested in what's to come with the Fourth Plain redevelopment area. Maybe for the first time, we'll see the same type of attention, development and incentives outside of the downtown core.

[Waterbuffalo]

"Personally, I'm interested in what's to come with the Fourth Plain redevelopment area. Maybe for the first time, we'll see the same type of attention, development and incentives outside of the downtown core."

After so many years of neglect and being forgotten, why yes, I agree with you tefen. With the new 4th Plain redevelopment plans, things are starting to look good.

If you need to know why the area needs to be redeveloped, go look north and around 4th Plain near Kyocera. The area looks like a bombed out World War 2 crater, then go all the way til you get to the VA.

You either hit low income areas or areas with a lot of crime within them.

Redeveloping them seems a better and better idea all ready.

"You forgot the two Ellie Kassab developments at Mill Plain and C as well as the Al Angelo project at the old Denny's site.

As far as pushing development out of downtown? I think the idea behind the main street alignment for lightrail was to drag development northward, like a brush through wet paint."

Yeah, tefen you beat me to those two or three. But the problem is those are still in the planning stages and have not been realized yet.

If Light Rail drags better improvements into areas like 4th plain from Main Street to Kauffman Avenue, I'd be all for it. But my experience of riding the Yellow and Red lines into Portland tell me this is either very slow in coming or was pushed by a Portland city hall who didn't like see the facade that has been painting by previous administrations.

Add to that, most of the redevelopment along Interstate Avenue has only been superficial to paint it it up a lower income neighborhoods in North, NorthEast and North Portland who have been neglected for how many years?

Chief might have heard the sentiments from the guy at CRCP who represents the North Hayden Island boat home owners association and Jantzen beach home owners, they're only being "enhanced" or giving a few meager benefits because its politically expedient to do so.

If you look around Downtown, no one wants to live down there because of that same neglect from years and years of inattentiveness by previous administrations. It looks like people might be taking things back but I still stand my point that I think its all being down to broadstroke it for the hairs of just a few.

[Waterbuffalo]

You mean this one?
http://www.columbian.com/opinion/news/2008/01/01162008_Freeway-lid-makes-sense-for-reserve.cfm

[Waterbuffalo]

Chief, you might say that this is one subject I get "really" torqued over the axles over.

Having worked in Downtown and seeing what has happened over the years has made me a cynic even more than some of the regulars here.

Now this questions is going to be asked, so I will answer it now instead of the future. I do believe that Light Rail into Vancouver will happen at some point in the future and that will be done whether the howlers of heaven and hell think otherwise. I'll put my hat behind either Light Rail or bus rapid transit because nothing else seems to ever get done in this community other than what is politically expedient.

Wish there was more options that were decent but at this point its either or.

Going to move any other responses to this to the Light Rail Forum..

[tefen]

In the above linked editorial, the topic is the freeway cap over I-5 which is being proposed with the I-5 replacement bridge.

I find this part of the story to be of interest.

The new bridge design could slice off a hunk of western boundary of the historic reserve.... By law, national historic sites and national parks adversely affected by this kind of federal project must provide mitigation. The historic reserve is both.

The interesting part of this, is that he seems to be suggesting that the freeway cap IS this mitigation.

I always thought the cap was coming out of left field without any logical reasoning. The mitigation arguement might just be the logic that gets this cap included in the project.

[Waterbuffalo]

One question I am asking about this cap and the Confluence Project:

Is going to be used to some how corral the new Columbia River Crossing into some form of channel that could not be expanded into the future if there was a need make a bigger bridge area or some other options can't be pursued because its boxed in?

Could that cap or CF be used in a terrorist attack that could create a huge problem by cutting off one of the main accesses into Portland?